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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.04 03:46:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Kenpotchi Weired I know but with the buff to projectiles the Vargur is the king of missions runners. Others say the Golem well I say they are wrong. Here is why.
[Vargur, New Setup 1] Gist C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Gist A-Type Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Expensive setup. What... 3-4 bil?
Quote: With a little EFTing (I know EFT isnt all that reliable) here is a possible set up with 1165 DPS. 1007 with guns using faction EMP and 158 with drones. 418 sustained defence efficiemcy and 1127 reinforced. The guns have 0.11016 tracking, 3900 optimal, and 64052 fall off.
Not terribly exciting TBH. Ignoring the drone bay (since they both have the same drone bay), the Golem outdamages you (significantly) against everything cruiser sized and above all the way out to 65km (yes, even a Jav golem will outdamage you past 20km) - and that's on top of truly pure damage types.
No, the only two places that the Vargur is going to be more successful is: - Missions like Buzz Kill and Massive Attack, which spawn lots of cruisers and virtually no battleships - Missions like Angel Ex (possibly) and Gone Berserk where rats spawn just too far to use CN Torps. - When considering painter cycle time (it's frustrating, but there are ways to mitigate this).
To put this in perspective, you can expect about 980*.8 = 784 DPS @ 3.9+64/2 = 36km (turret DPS). That's dangerously close to cruise CNR territory (719 DPS).
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.04 09:14:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Julie Thorne How much time do you need to kill a cruiser, Liang?
I one volley them.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.06 00:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/01/2010 00:50:44
Originally by: Julie Thorne Try to fit the best implants available.
Actually, it seems that there's 4 domi gyros and a Collision Accel II... but even with Pashan's and 5%'s you're still not getting 1163 DPS out of it with RF EMP.
-Liang
Ed: I'll address the rest of your post Soon(tm). Gotta go home from work first. And I'm tired after having been up all night. :-/ -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.06 04:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/01/2010 04:34:46
Originally by: Kenpotchi Liang I know its hard to think that any thing higher then a cruser hull for Minmatar being any good but with implants and faction mods the Vargur and the Golem are just about neck and neck for marauders.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying the Vargur is *BAD* by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying that it's getting a lot of fanfare because it no longer *SUCKS* rather than it's actually the best Marauder. Which is to say - sure... there's three *really good* Marauders. I don't know if I'm comfortable authoritatively stating which one *is* best - but the people outright dismissing the Golem are wrong.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.10 19:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Julie Thorne I agree but I didn't want to question Liang's word (even though it would have been so easy to prove her wrong )
I don't often face Mercenary Commanders on approach velocity tbh. I one volley the majority of rats that I face.
Quote: I think as an arty ship the Mach has always been better than the Vargur.
Not so sure now that it lost its tracking bonus though - but historically I agree. And maybe even today too - I haven't run a Mach to know the difference.
Quote: No, you said that the Vargur was WORSE than a Golem against anything bigger than a destroyer:
No, I said that the Golem outdamaged it - that doesn't mean its *worse*. If you'd like to go back and look at what I said, I said that there were critical flaws in the Golem. Here, I'll quote it since you seem to be fond of selective quoting:
Originally by: Liang Nuren
No, the only three places that the Vargur is going to be more successful is: - Missions like Buzz Kill and Massive Attack, which spawn lots of cruisers and virtually no battleships - Missions like Angel Ex (possibly) and Gone Berserk where rats spawn just too far to use CN Torps. - When considering painter cycle time (it's frustrating, but there are ways to mitigate this).
As for this...
Originally by: Liang
Ignoring the drone bay (since they both have the same drone bay), the Golem outdamages you (significantly) against everything cruiser sized and above all the way out to 65km (yes, even a Jav golem will outdamage you past 20km) - and that's on top of truly pure damage types.
I stand by it. There exist rats that don't instapop, sure, but generally speaking the Golem outdamages the Vargur.
Quote: Since 100 hours have passed without a response I'll have to assume that I was right and you're wrong.
Ok, you go ahead and assume whatever you like. I don't really have time to deal with it today, and forgot about it since. Of course, we'll ignore that you claimed the Vargur was a better mission runner than the Golem before the projectile boost - and that was just flat out wrong. :)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.11 05:07:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/01/2010 05:07:48
Originally by: Julie Thorne Still you managed to find time to respond to a completely irrelevant post
Funny, I think that may just describe the whole ****ing forum.
Quote: I guess it's harder arguing with numbers than simply posting your unfounded opinion.
Yeah, because I shy away from numbers.
Quote: You used to be better than this.
Ah, then well maybe I should stop.
-Liang
Ed: When I say I don't have enough ****ing time to respond to a post, I mean it. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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